In this episode you will hear ASCY’s Nicole Colterman have a conversation with Shannon Elfner and Nicole Bloomkvist from Mary Poppins Co op Preschool in Caledonia. Shannon and Nicole will ask us to think about the celebrations that we typically acknowledge and celebrate in child care programs, and how and why we may consider celebrating something else.
In this episode you will hear ASCY’s Nicole Colterman have a conversation with Shannon Elfner and Nicole Bloomkvist from Mary Poppins Co op Preschool in Caledonia. Shannon and Nicole will ask us to think about the celebrations that we typically acknowledge and celebrate in child care programs, and how and why we may consider celebrating something else.
Hello from Hamilton, Ontario. And welcome to ask his podcast show. Can we talk conversations in early childhood education? On today's episode a conversation about considering what we celebrate and why. You'll hear Nicole Colterman have a conversation with Shannon Elsner and Nicole Bloomqist from Mary Poppins. Co-op preschool in Caledonia. Shannon. And Nicole will ask us to think about the celebrations that we typically acknowledge and celebrate and childcare programs. And how and why we may consider celebrating something else. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode. Hi, everybody. I'm Nicole Colterman, a professional learning consultant with ASCII, Haldeman Norfolk, and today we're going to have a really in depth conversation about something that's really important and is really timely in our society. I'm going to start off with a quote from the book, You Can't Celebrate That by Nadia Jabotnaya. We can create inclusive and respectful cultures that honor differences by learning and talking about our similarities and differences. About actions to encounter and unfairness, we are providing children with a strong foundation to create a different world, one brave heartfelt conversation at a time. So I would like to welcome here to have this brave and heartfelt conversation with us today is Shannon Elfner, who is a supervisor and registered early childhood educator program teacher at Mary Poppins Co op Preschool in Caledonia, and Nicole Blomquist, who is a registered early childhood educator and program teacher at Mary Poppins as well. Welcome ladies. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today. Okay, so we're going to start off here. I want to know about the change that you have been doing in your program and what inspired this change. So the last couple of years, we've noticed bigger diversity in the families that are attending Mary Poppins. So we were kind of looking for different ways that we could celebrate each individual family instead of necessarily focusing on the traditional holidays and celebrations that we want. I think that we've like we've been on this documentation journey and this learning more about the child and what they're interested in journey for a few years now, and we're really starting to like, be excited and be curious about like, like, what's important to the children? Like, is it that it's happening next week? Is it that it's Christmas? Is that important to all of the children? Or is that important to us as the adults? And like, what is it that they, they like about those celebrations? What is it that gets them excited about it? And how can we build on that in? Like an inclusive way in our car, instead of like Nicole mentioned, instead of just focusing on, you know, those individual holidays or those things that might not be important to every child might not be something they celebrate or something that's meaningful to them. How can we find, like, the parts of those things and bring them into our program in a unique way? That's I would say, like, has been a lot of our inspiration as well. Just trying to find more about the individual child. And as Nicole said, like, celebrating that child and what's important to them. That's amazing. And I want to highlight something that you said there. Is that like this? Is it just us? Is it us as the educators said? Is it something that we want to do and we want to plan or is it about the children and the families that are in our program? So, having said that, like, how did you introduce this concept now to the rest of your team and to your board of directors? I think that introduction has come, like, over time. So it's been something we've been talking about. Honestly, like, COVID sparked it a little bit because things had to change and your celebrations and the way you did things changed. And for me, like, it got me thinking about, like, why we do these celebrations and where the benefit is. And why do we always have Santa or why do we always have, you know, like, I'm just using specific holidays as an example, but, you know. What's important about those things and what's meaningful to the child about those things. And so introducing the concept has been about, like, our own conversations about, like, what we've missed about it, or what we liked different about what we were kind of forced to do differently and what that meant for the child or the positives we found in that. And in doing that, like, Nicole and I, and then the rest of our staff team. It's been like, it's been a bit of a journey, like, introducing it because it's hard and some of the qualities are important to us and we celebrate them and they're meaningful to our families and to our childhood. But we're trying to take away your own personal bias of it and look at from a 3 year old's point of view, right? Or from a young child's point of view, what's important to them or what's. Like what's meaningful to them about it. And so a lot of it's been about education and hard conversations like that. I would say, which sounds like a weird way to introduce something like that. Sounds like a backwards way of, like, introducing a concept. But for us, it's like educators, it's just been about time and having those hard conversations and recognizing those positive parts of it to come of it. We're just talking today about like, an activity Nicole did today that. You know, it was so meaningful, and it had nothing to do with, you know, the fact that some kids are excited that it's Halloween soon. But that activity had nothing to do with that. And we weren't missing anything by not celebrating that. And so it's come from hard conversations, it's come from like education, and it's come from, you know, the end of the day, you know, somebody has to make the final decision to make the final, you know, maybe that's me, maybe that's Nicole, but it's been like all those hard things along the way that's helped introduce it over time and got us to where we are now. For our board, we just. It was a little bit like, more we sort of just introduced it at a meeting, expected there to be a lot of conversation with it. There wasn't a lot of conversation. Like, they were taking our lead on it. We introduced it with like like reasons why and why it was important to us similar kind of to this conversation. What's important what we're excited about. And what we care about what your children are learning and. That maybe that's not, you know, a specific quality or specific celebration and how we want to focus on the individual children and what's important to them. And in doing that, like, we, we had no, like, no real feedback at all. Everybody was just like, well, that sounds great. That sounds exactly what you should be doing, you know, in our early learning program. So, although we thought that may be like, a bit of a roadblock or be hard for some people, it really didn't come with a lot of like, difficult and the introduction went super smooth. Similarly, when we wanted to share the information with families we did write an email to share with everybody and we included a whole bunch of things in that email and we started with focusing on where how we're an emergent program and how the similar things that we're curious about, like, what children are learning and. Why they're curious about that and what that means to them and how we can build on that for them. And in doing that we were able to explain that we want to celebrate things that are important to everybody in the community, you know, it's still okay to be celebrated. It just might not be a request of our classroom. So that's sort of how we introduced it. I was like, you know, if, if it's Halloween coming up and you're really excited about Halloween, then you can wear your orange shirt and, or you can wear you know, something that's important to you to celebrate that day. Just like if it's your birthday or if it's a special holiday day, or, you know, we have families celebrating so many different holidays that we're not even aware of. And if it's something that's important to you, you can wear something to share that and to express that. You want to bring something into the class to share that, then you can do that. You don't have to talk to your teacher about make sure there's no allergies or things, but we can still celebrate those individual things. It just won't be a classroom request. It will be at what the children are celebrating and what they're important about what families are wanting to share with us. Not something that we're saying, you know, we are definitely celebrating this or this or this. So that's sort of been the journey with families. And then again, it's about You know, maybe aren't holiday specific, but that are so much more great than you know, a Halloween party or Christmas party or an Easter celebration or whatever thing it is that you know, we might have celebrated in the past that we thought was right. But now we know that we can do better and we want the families to see that we can do better and that they can do better too. And maybe, you know, in their homes, they'll realize that some of the things we do, you know, maybe aren't even the things that are most important to our children. That's amazing. I'm just taking this all in and it sounds like just such a wonderful journey. You're all on and you really are truly like co learners alongside with those Children and taking on those interests And I love that there isn't going to be this whole entire like classroom vomited up Christmas that you're bringing in those bits and pieces that are important to those individual Children and those individual families and not just doing it off of your own bias. So thank you so much for really pinpointing those things. I was wondering if you could explain a little bit more in detail some of the concepts that you have been introducing into your program. Well, so we were kind of talking about like how, you know, we are an emergent program, but, you know, not necessarily celebrating these specific holidays, I guess, like drawing on Halloween being next week, like it is really challenging us to follow those children's interests. And, you know, to plan activities for things that they're really interested in. So, for example, my class has been really interested in science. And so today on the tough tray, I forget what it's called when you mix the cornstarch and water. And I actually said to miss Dana, you know. If we had celebrated Halloween today, we wouldn't have been able to do this because they would have been in their costumes and we wouldn't want to do anything messy. But like the 1 child, she spent almost 40 minutes at the tough trade playing with it. She just loved it so much. So I think, like, you know, we're, we're planning more meaningful activities. For the children based on what they're actually interested in, rather than what we want them to be interested in. And when we get a little stuck, like on that planning, because I mean, we all do right, then we we think of it from like something that we know that all the children are experiencing something like we've sort of taken like a seasonal approach. So it's fall time and so we're all experiencing that. It's getting colder out. Some days are warm. Some days are cool. The leaves are changing the leaves. It's on the ground. It's getting windy. It's more rainy. Like those type of things that the kids are talking about and everybody's experiences. I walked into school, right? Like, our experience of that is everybody's had that. And maybe they've perceived it different, but everybody's had that same experience and witnessing those same things around them. So we know, like, that's something that and living in their everyday environment. You know, whereas maybe if they would have, you know, made a turkey at Thanksgiving, that might not be something that's meaningful to each of the children or something that means anything to them or anything to their life. It was just something that we thought was maybe important because it was false. So we're really trying because I feel like, you know, we all change and grow with the seasons. And if we take that approach, in the preschool, it's so impactful because it helps us, like. Our programming and our how we're going to build on things and what we are experiencing and what we are feeling.'cause your feelings change based on the seasons and based on things that you're experiencing. But when we're not all experiencing the same celebrations, how could we possibly think that? Like we'd all have the same feelings about it or we're all be meaningful to us. So like we've sort of taken that approach as well to help with like, sometimes, you know, like those lows or when you're trying to find a new interest or you want, you still want things like represent their environment. In your environment. So, you know, maybe it's you know, it's about winter and it's about snowman and snow on trees and birds and how they prepare for winter and important things like that that are maybe they transition us into like holiday season, but it's not about the holiday itself. It's about all those other experiences. And so that, to us, I think that, is, a huge concept changer in the preschool. And, like, Nicole said, now it's challenging us, you know, you're not going out and buying a theme specific craft to do. You're thinking about, like, what are they curious about? And, like, with the slime and the science, is it that they love Bill Nye the Science Guy? Probably not, but they like to squish, and they like to manipulate, and they like to see change, and they like to predict what's going to happen, and they like to see bubbles, and they're curious about why is that bubbling, or why is that squishy, or why can't I stretch it? Like, all these different things that they want to know about. It is where we need to focus, and it's not that we can't celebrate everybody and everything that's important to everybody, but our focus should always be on those things that they're curious and learning about, especially when they're, you know, they're short time when they're in child care. This is all so amazing. I just these shared experiences, I think, is what my key, aha thing is in your process is that, you know, what are these shared things that we're all encompassing, like, and experiencing together. And so hearing you talk about that was just. Kind of a bit of an eye opener for me was like, Yeah, I guess that would be really a sense of belonging for absolutely everybody in your program when we're all sharing this. And it also sounds like to me that taking away some of those pressures to celebrate all of these holidays and these big ways is actually giving you more time to really investigate those interests and those skills and those things that are happening right there in front of your eyes on a daily basis. So how powerful that is. What has been your biggest challenge? I think for me, like, it's that personal bias, right? Like, you know, Christmas, I'm a, I'm a big Christmas person. And so for me, at first, it was, it was very difficult, I'll be honest, to kind of wrap my head around this. So that's kind of been my biggest challenge. But, you know, that example that I gave of the experience with the tough tray today, I, I do see the benefits. Of it now. But, yeah, for me, that was kind of the biggest challenge. I think that's it for, like, all of us, just like a journey like this is hard. And I think, the biggest challenge has probably been, you know, when, you know, and maybe I'm at a different point in the journey than some of our staff, or maybe the Nicole, because we all are at a different point for so many different reasons. And so, like, you know, when we first started talking about it, and I was like, Hey, so I was thinking and, you know, someone has to start that conversation and it's kind of hard. And then you realize quickly that like, you don't all agree on it, right? Like, there's some things that are so easy that we all agree on and it's all great and lovely. And this is awesome. This is what we're going to do. And we're all excited. But then sometimes. It's hard and the hard parts of it have been the biggest challenge, but I'm also like, led to where we are, going through them because it's just been. Like, you know, and it's not like, anyone's fighting or anyone's upset, but it's just, you realize that everybody's coming from different points. And then, for me, as being the supervisor, I'm realizing that, you know, I have to value what's important to my staff, too. And I want and I want them to feel like, you know, they love their job and they're excited about learning. And I want, Nicole talking today about is so great. That that she's telling me now, what what she learned and what she's sharing with her staff today when they did an activity, like, the benefits are seen because, you know, when when it's hard and when it's different, and I guess change is hard. So, when things are things are different, and even for me, you question yourself all the time and I'm a bit of an overthinker. So you question yourself all the time. Like, is is this the right direction? Is this, you know, and, that that part's hard, and that part's a little bit messy, and it's kind of uncomfortable. And when things are uncomfortable, I would say that becomes a challenge for me, because I don't really like things to be uncomfortable. But I also know to like, make progress and to make change. We've been on this journey with our documentation and with, like. With our creative activities and our art activities and our environment and our choice of materials in our environment and me as a supervisor, I've been on this journey of where I fit in all this, you know, and how what this means for me and for the staff and then most importantly, for the children. So. I would say that's been like, you know, biggest challenge and you're not 100 percent confident in yourself. But I think that's the thing with early learning and with all of us. You know, you kind of know it's the right thing, and you know it's the right direction, and you're excited, but you're also nervous, and you're just not sure how that's going to, you know, how it plays out for everybody. And is it really the right decision? Absolutely. I think these are all natural feelings that we're going to have when we're in any type of, on any type of a journey or a process of change. I love the piece about like the collaboration that you have as a team, and especially you're in a co op preschool. You're a half day program. You don't work together every day with all of your team. So having those conversations and hearing everybody's voices, so not just the children and the families, but each one of you, like how important that is for a team. And it's also, you know, being comfortable with the uncomfortable. It's because some things are uncomfortable. Change can be uncomfortable. Some conversations you're going to have are going to be uncomfortable. So those are going to be a challenge. But I'm just so proud of the two of you for continuously doing this work and having those conversations and making this change. I was wondering what your unexpected or expected benefits have been. So I guess it sort of ties into the previous question, but the unexpected benefits have been like the growth of us as a team or the growth of like getting through something like a little bit uncomfortable. And then being able to like, be honest and say, you know what I learned from that, or you know what, I did see the benefit of this, this was great. I think, that's been an unexpected benefit that I didn't think because, you know, when you 1st, like, want to do something that's different or change, you're thinking about, your automatic brain goes to, the things are missing out on, you know, when we 1st talked to, like, the staff team, but it's like, oh, what do you mean? We're not doing like a Halloween party or we can't wear costumes or we can't, you know, we keep talking about Halloween because it's close, but not to, you know, not to center that over any other holiday, but you know, it's the same thing when you go through all the different stages of traditional holidays or celebrations and. Yeah. And so, like, the unexpected benefit is, the education that we're able to give each other and the point of views that we're able to share with each other and then being able to see that growth in each other and being able to back each other on it. Even if we're not 100 percent like, you know, because sometimes you just have to go through it being Be comfortable with it being uncomfortable and go through it, not really being sure. And then you maybe don't see the benefits till after, at first it maybe feels a little icky, but then after you know what? It's that self reflection piece that I think we've all been trying to work on. And that's always the goal of like PD or change or anything that you're doing, right? Is that like, how do we do better? And how do we do more things that are child focused? And for me, I would say like, that's been the biggest unexpected benefit. Even today, just hearing a call say that. It is like a huge, amazing, exciting thing for all of us and it's different for us with our Nicole mentioned our personal biases and things that are important to us, that we're changing or that we're refocusing, you know, that interest or that. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to hear like all these amazing benefits that are, that you're seeing, and I hope that you continue to grow together as a team, as a community there at Mary Poppins and having these conversations. Has there been any influence from these changes in any of the other areas of your programming? Well, I think just looking at, like, you know, more of the art programming aspect, you know, you would walk into our classroom today and you would see art on the walls of things that the children have been interested in. We've been using spray bottles to paint with we've got the rollers, we've done eyedroppers. You're not walking into the classroom and seeing, you know, again, going back to Halloween, ghosts and spiders and pumpkins on the walls because. There hasn't really been discussion of those things amongst the children. They really love painting. And so we've been experimenting with different ways to paint. So, you know, walking into our classroom right now. That's what you see. That's how the children's interests are represented from the activities that they've been. Loving doing, and I think when you make a change like this, or go in, I don't even want to say change because we're not, we're not there on the change. We're just working on, the journey of the change. But when you do something like that, it sort of does spill over into everything because it's that self reflection piece. And then it thinks then you're thinking more about, like, Nicole said, but they're actually interested in. Because you, you don't have something traditional or something you might have celebrated in the past to fall back on. So you're really looking at what the, children are curious about and interested in and, you know, what, what they want to learn more about and, and why they're curious about those things. And I think that that affects, your documentation and that affects, like, all areas of your program. It affects what you're putting out for creative. It affects, the materials in your classroom. So the use of, like, loose parts, the use of, authentic things. You know, and it's like, just recently, we've had, like, a shift in our our dramatic play area and what we want to have out for dress up. And like, because we want these, real authentic, outfits and purses and jewelry and different things that we don't want, the princess on a costume anymore, because we know that, these other things that are real, that they're experiencing at home and that. They've seen at home where they've seen in different areas, you know, then bringing in things from different cultures and different materials and different that, you know, maybe they haven't seen a leather zippered suitcase before, I just feel like it has such a big impact on everything and you maybe don't realize it until you have a conversation like this of how many things that does impact because then the things that we're documenting and the things are documenting effects are programming. And so we're documenting different things because we're focused on different things. And so, I think it's actually had a huge impact in all areas of our programming because it just makes you think about, you know, and kind of going into, later, we'll talk a little bit about kind of our goals with this and where you go from here. And then I think you'll see that like tiny more right where you realize how much it has influenced everything. Wow, that's incredible. I love hearing that you're taking those shared experiences into all the different aspects of your program, and that's just amazing. You mentioned there, Shannon, about your documentation shift. how are you planning to document this whole journey and this growth that is happening within your team? So we have a couple of different things that we're doing inside of our classroom. I'm going back to something you said a little bit earlier, Nicole about, you know, fostering that sense of belonging with the children. So, we actually made a canvas, all the children did a handprint on it and we wrote, we all belong and now we're tracing the children's hands and they're decorating them and we've done a whole display on the wall. Just, you know, everybody belongs here. We're all a big family. So we have that. We also have decided to make a family tree. I mean, this is something that we typically do every year. This year, though, we're shifting our focus a little bit. We've asked the families to send in a family photo, but we're also asking them to maybe do a little write up or send in other That they do together at home as a family with a little write up about it so that we can post it in the classroom and, you know, it helps us to learn more about the families. And it's also going to help the other children learn about their peers and their families. And I think, with going along with what was said, it's about, like, trying to celebrate more, not less. So we keep thinking about, all the things we're not celebrating has kind of been a bit of the focus of the conversation, but we're celebrating so many more things, like, what's important to them? Because really, their Saturday night movie night might be more important to them than they have every week or, you know, you know. Their bedtime story might be an important moment for them. That's far more important every day for every child, you know, than a specific 1 day holiday or something that they might have celebrated. And so trying to bring that in to celebrate more, not less. So to focus on the documentation of the families and of this journey and how I think that documentation comes out and like everything we spoke to and everything we're doing it's not less things. It's more things and more about each individual child and each family and how we are all different. And we celebrate those differences, not in a less way, but in a more way. Just in a more authentic way to all of us and to the Children. Well, all I can continuously say is just well, I'm so blown away by all of this. I have 1 final question for the 2 of you today. And I'm sure you've answered some of these for those listening with us. But if you had any words of advice for other programs, looking to take this big leap and to move in this direction, what would those words be? I say, just go for it. I think similarly, like, you have to start somewhere. And so, you know, this is a big conversation we've had, but it didn't start big. It started with, a couple of little changes and and us, you know, maybe be recognizing a change in that. And then me sharing that with Nicole, and then us sharing that with the other staff, and then us, you know, doing an activity, one activity that was different, you know, or one time not doing something that was, maybe theme based and doing something different. And from that through, you know, you see what you've learned from that, and then that goes so many other things, you have to start somewhere. And even if you just start by having the conversation and having those hard conversations. It's just hard because we all feel so differently about everything and we're all different and all unique and have different things that are important to us are always different. We didn't want any child missing out. We don't want children spending their time doing something. That's not meaningful to them. We always want them to be engaged. We want it to be meaningful experience. We want them to be interested, curious. We want to be able to extend on it. And if we're focused on, specific days or specific events throughout the year, it's hard to do that. it's almost like the opposite of what we want to do and where we see the benefit. And so just start small and have the conversations because when you have the conversations, you'll start to see like the benefit when I think you just have to know to like, the kids are still loved, supported, and most importantly, they feel like they belong here, right? So, they're really not missing out on anything. And that's what we've like the biggest thing that we've is there another not missing out they're they're getting so much more. And as educators like we're not missing out like I think you've somebody mentioned earlier. It's like, it takes away a little bit of the pressure sometimes and really lets you think about what is important to us as teachers. What is important to these little humans that we're responsible for and that we're trying to support with their curiosity and their excitement with this big world that they live in. how do they make sense of that? And, you know, I would just question people, to ask themselves, do they make sense of that, you know, from a Christmas or Halloween party or specific celebration? Or do they make sense of that from all these individual child focused experiences? So, it kind of starts with your own personal bias, start somewhere and maybe start with yourself. You know, and and then that will grow to your team that will grow to your the Children in your program and and then it goes to your families through communication through education through what they actively see their Children learning and doing it just will have a huge impact, even if it starts small and seems a little messy or uncomfortable at first. Thank you so much. Both of you for all of these amazing conversations that we've been having today. I really do love that it does start small. It doesn't just happen overnight. It is a process. It is a journey. And I hope that you both continue to grow more and continue this journey. And having those conversations. So thank you. I hope that this inspired others to start asking some questions. Start small and start having these conversations with their teams and their families. So thank you both so much for your time today. I really, truly appreciate it. Thank you.